In this episode, Jen Andrew, DRNC’s Communications Coordinator, interviews Reighlah Collins, Attorney on DRNC’s Education team and Jolona Kinlaw, Advocate on DRNC’s Education team. They talk about the critical work of DRNC’s Education team and what parents can expect as they send their children with disabilities back to school this year.
Find out more about the work of DRNC’s Education team.
And listen to the podcast episode here:
Transcript
Jen Andrews:
The content of this program is intended for people who are blind, have low vision or print disabilities. Hello, this is Jen Andrew for the North Carolina Reading Service. For the next half hour, I’ll be presenting the latest legal matters. Today’s Legal Matters is underwritten by the Apex Lions Club serving the community since 1937 by providing services and financial support for people who are blind, have low vision or print disabilities. To learn more about the services provided by the Apex Lions Club, go to apexlions.org.
For today’s episode, I’ll be speaking with Reighlah Collins, who is an attorney on the education team at Disability Rights North Carolina. And Jolona Kinlaw, an advocate on the education team. Today we’ll be talking about education and going back to school, especially as it relates to children with disabilities. Thank you both so much for being here today. I’m so looking forward to this conversation. To start us off, Reighlah, please let our listeners know your role with DRNC and what brought you to this work.
Reighlah Collins:
I’m an attorney on the education team at Disability Rights North Carolina. I came to this work with a lifelong passion for disability justice. My parents work in disability related fields. My siblings are all neurodivergent or have learning disabilities. I have an anxiety disorder, and before law school I worked at a group home for adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities. So this is really just the world I’ve always lived in and I can’t imagine doing a job that’s not related to disability rights in some way.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you so much for sharing that with us. Jolona, could we ask you the same thing? Tell us a little about your role with DRNC and what brought you to this work.
Jolona Kinlaw:
Okay. Hi. Again, yes, my name is Jolona. First and foremost, I am also a special needs mother, and that’s what brought me to advocacy work. I have a son who was diagnosed with autism and he’s 10 years old. I also have a mental health background as a licensed clinician. I have a dual licensed in substance abuse and mental health. So again, advocacy has always been a part of that in speaking with people and helping them assess different services and just empowering them to advocate for their own rights. I have a history of working with autism society and doing community work and advocacy, and then I enter the world of legal advocacy over at DRNC and here we are.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you. Thank you so much for that. So could you tell me, generally just describe what you do on the education team and the kinds of cases you take?
Jolona Kinlaw:
So DRNC’s education team has a specific focus of students that are kind of focused on excluding for school reasons related to disabilities. They may look like frequent suspensions, modified day or home-bound schedules, alternative school placements, referrals or juvenile court cases or school-based offenses. Our goal is for these students who primarily are excluded from school is to be able to provide them with supports and services that they need to be successful in school.
How we do that is from a educational stance or empowering stance in terms of providing education materials to parents or advocates, like training videos, fact sheets, different special education like we speak on different education issues and offer options for resolving disagreements with the school. We also refer to other parent advocacy organizations in the community such as ECAC or ASNC. And I guess on a systemic platform we help keep students with disabilities in school by securing changes to laws and procedures that are harmful to students with disabilities and helping parents enforce those laws and procedures to protect the students with disabilities. The process of self-advocacy kind of walks hand in hand with the parent and teaches them the rights and rights of their child and how to navigate the appeals processes to enforce those rights.
Reighlah Collins:
And then I’ll just add that we do represent individual students on systemic legal issues, but we typically don’t attend IEP meetings with parents. We can assist parents with filing their own state complaints. We do that a lot, but if a parent wants someone to attend IEP meetings with them, we can provide referrals to advocacy organizations that provide this type of work.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you both so much. Just so our listeners are familiar, Jolana, and I heard you say I think it was ECAC and ESNIC. Could you just briefly explain what those mean? Thank you.
Jolona Kinlaw:
Sure. So ASNC is the Autism Society of North Carolina and ECAC is Exceptional Children’s Assistance Center. These are organizations that primarily help parents or advocates kind of understand their rights and how to navigate the system from a parent perspective. They may give trainings, offering information on IEPs and how to navigate participating in those meetings or next steps if they have issues in terms of access and supports or resources.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you so much for clarifying that. So I imagine many folks in our audience, our parents, children with disabilities or no parents. If I were in the role of a parent of a child with a disability and I discovered my child’s needs were not being met, what would you suggest I do?
Reighlah Collins:
So if your child doesn’t have an IEP yet, I would suggest requesting that your child be evaluated for an IEP. You just should put that request in writing and send it to your child’s teacher or principal. And then if your child already has an IEP and you still don’t feel like their needs are being met, you could request that the IEP team meet to discuss your concerns and you can change the IEP if needed. Parents can request an IEP meeting at any time. You don’t have to wait for the annual review or the three-year reevaluation meeting. And in fact, if your child’s not making progress on their IEP goals, you can request a reevaluation even if it’s been less than three years since the last one. And just as a general tip, I would suggest putting any requests or concerns in writing and then copying someone in a higher position like the principal or the district’s exceptional children’s director if possible.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you. That’s really good advice. I appreciate that. So maybe further along in this example, if I was the parent of a child with a disability and the IEP team made a decision I disagreed with, or I felt like my child’s IEP wasn’t being properly implemented, then maybe what are the steps he would suggest taking at that point?
Reighlah Collins:
So first, if you’re in an IEP meeting and a decision’s being made that you don’t agree with, you should make your disagreement known and ask that your disagreement be documented in the prior written notice and minutes. And I’ll just say signing the IEP doesn’t mean you agree with it. It just means you were at the meeting. So I know sometimes people are stressed about that. But then if you’re having trouble negotiating with the school to get your child those services that they need, a good first step can be contacting the district exceptional children’s director, and just asking that they attend the next IEP meeting.
You can also call the North Carolina Department of Public Instruction or DPIs dispute resolution consultants about any special education issue that you’re having, and they can sometimes help you resolve those issues at the local level. DPI can provide facilitators and mediators. Facilitators can help come and act as basically a neutral manager of the IEP team meeting. They help make sure the conversation stays collaborative and focused on problem solving.
And then there are more formal appeal options like filing a state complaint with the North Carolina Department of Public Instruction. You don’t need an attorney for that process. There’s just a form. You can find it on their website that you fill out and they’ll investigate the complaint and issue a decision within 60 days. And then there’s due process. That’s another formal dispute resolution option, but it does typically require an attorney to be successful.
Jen Andrews:
Gotcha. Thank you. So I understand that on occasion there have been stories about schools calling a parent and asking them to pick their child up early from school. Is the school allowed to do that?
Reighlah Collins:
So they’re not allowed to do it and not treat it as a suspension. So if you’re called to pick your child up early from school because of behavior, you should ask for formal suspension paperwork. And it’s important. It might seem like, “Well, it would be better if my child’s not suspended.” But actually you need the formal suspension paperwork in order to trigger important discipline protections for students with disabilities. You need to be able to prove that your child’s been suspended for up to 10 days in order for them to have a manifestation determination review. Which is, again, a really important discipline protection for students with disabilities.
And then if you’re called to pick your child up for some other reason like illness, it can still be helpful to ask for something in writing just in case there becomes a dispute in the future about suspension and homes stays missed and stuff.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you. That’s all really helpful advice. Can a child with an IEP be suspended from school?
Reighlah Collins:
Yes. So children with IEPs can be suspended for up to 10 days without any special protections. At that point, they can be suspended just like any other student who doesn’t have an IEP. However, on the 11th day of out of school suspension in one school year for a child who has an IEP, the IEP team must hold an MDR, which is that manifestation and determination review I just mentioned. And that meeting is to determine if the behavior that triggered the suspension is related to the child’s disability or the school’s failure to implement the IEP.
And if the answer to either of those questions is yes, the child can’t be suspended and must be returned to the school in the placement they were prior to the suspension, and then even if the behavior wasn’t related to the child’s disability, the suspension can continue, but they’re still entitled to a free appropriate public education while they’re suspended. So they should still be receiving education services, just not at school.
Jen Andrews:
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you. So what would you suggest to a parent if their child is frequently being suspended or sent home from various behaviors?
Jolona Kinlaw:
If a child with an IEP has behaviors that are interfering with their learning or learning of others, the school must address these supporting behaviors through their IEP. This support might look like behavioral goals supplemental aids and services and or behavioral intervention plan. If the child is being suspended frequently, it would behoove them to have a BIP, which is a behavioral intervention plan. If the child does not, then there’s several ways that the parent can advocate for this. So if a child already has an IEP can ask for an IEP meeting to review the behavioral intervention plan that they already have in place.
If they don’t have a behavioral intervention plan, the parent can ask for an IEP meeting to request a functional behavioral assessment, which is also known as the FBA. And this allows the team to be able to come back to the table and actually create a behavioral intervention plan. And an FBA is an assessment performed to determine the underlying cause of the challenge and behavior. So it’s almost like an investigation that the IEP team comes to the table to do to identify what is the behavior and what’s causing it. The conclusion of the FBA is often used to create the BAB is a written plan that includes supports, tools, skills for the child and the school staff to use together to create the positive behavior and the outcome for redirecting those challenges that they’re having in the school setting.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you. Thank you so much. And so what should a parent do if the school refuses to provide suspension paperwork?
Jolona Kinlaw:
Oftentimes, like Reighlah had mentioned, it’s important that the parent tries to provide documentation or request it. If a parent is called to pick up their child, while they’re on the phone, they can formally and politely ask for suspension paperwork to be provided. Once the parent arrives to the school and suspension paperwork is not provided, the parent can document via email, everyone that’s involved, whether that be the principal, the teacher and EC director, just stating that suspension paperwork wasn’t given. Also, it’s good to note that the parent can save any voicemails, any text messages, any documentation that will provide proof that the school is calling the parent and asking them or requesting them to pick up their child.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you. Thank you both for that. I wish I had known you a long time ago because one of my kids actually did have an IEP and it was quite challenging having it implemented and adhered to. And hindsight is 2020, so I appreciate y’all sharing that with us. Can you tell me some challenges you’ve come across as you’ve done this work on the education team?
Jolona Kinlaw:
So for me, speaking personally and professionally as a parent, I know that it can be very difficult to understand how to navigate the system. Even when you go to different resources, the information presented sometimes is not saying the same thing and so it can create confusion. One difficulty too is obviously there’s different cases, there’s different needs. And so trying to meet all those needs on a professional level can be very frustrating. As Reighlah mentioned earlier, DRNC on the ED team, we do not typically attend a lot of IEP meetings. But how we try to really meet the need of the parent, empower them and educate them is through our self-advocacy assistance where this is really designed to come alongside the parent, point them in the right direction in terms of educating them on their parental rights, the rights of their child, and then walking them through the process of how to empower that. Whether that be contacting DPI and going through the mitigation process or using their facilitators or actually walking them through the formal dispute options if that’s filing a state complaint or if they need to be referred elsewhere.
But behind scenes, we’re kind of putting the information in their hand and telling them, “This is what you need to say, this is what you need to do, and we have your support in the background.” And I think that’s a really good setup because oftentimes with different advocacy approach if work, always doing the work for the parent and not necessarily letting them feel it and walk through it and know how to do it on their own, it sets them up for not being able to continue the work or be empowered to know how to handle the next situation.
I think something that we forget, we’re always going to have to advocate in this field, I think, even as parents. Even if you have a child without a disability, there’s always going to be instances where you’re going to have to advocate on their behalf and then you want to teach them to do the same. So it’s almost like we’re doing that behind scenes and really holding the hand of the parent, walking them through the process, allowing them to feel what that’s like. And then if they have challenges, we’re still there to kind of walk them through it.
Reighlah Collins:
Yeah, I think that Jolana’s point is an excellent one, and that probably is the biggest challenge I can see. Is that parents have a lot of rights when it comes to special education and they have a right to be involved in every decision that’s made about their child’s special education. But so often the information and the process is just not accessible to parents. We don’t necessarily go to a lot of IEP meetings right now, but I’ve been to a lot of IEP meetings. And it’s just you walk into the room and it is just a room full of school staff and the parent. And they sometimes sit all on the opposite side of you and it’s supposed to feel collaborative.
And even if you have the nicest teachers and the nicest school staff, that power imbalance is impossible not to feel. And so, parents go in and even if they know, in theory, their rights and stuff, they often don’t feel empowered to exercise them in meetings and stuff. And so, we found while we were going to IEP meetings, like Jo was saying, the school only did the right thing as long as we were there. We could go to IEP meetings for the same child for literally five years. And as soon as we left, everything went back to the way it was before, and the parent had not been practicing exercising those rights because we were there to talk for them.
And so we are really trying to take a step back and focus a lot more on empowering the parents to use the systems that are supposed to work for them. So we’re being really intentional about creating education materials that are very parent accessible. Short videos, parents don’t have time to sit down and read a handbook every time they need to answer a question or they need a question answered. So we’re trying to provide better materials that are more accessible for parents and the self-advocacy assistance where we’re helping them navigate the process.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you both. That’s incredibly helpful, useful information and it really resonates with my experience. I’ve been in those IEP meetings where it’s eight to 10 teachers and staff and it can feel like they’ve already decided on a solution without your input. And as a new parent to the school system, it was incredibly intimidating. I didn’t know what my rights were, where to go. So I really appreciate your work. That’s really helpful. And the work, it sounds like, you’re doing on videos and fact sheets is giving parents the one thing they really need, which is their time back. It’s such a precious resource for your parents, so thank you.
Jolona Kinlaw:
And not even their time back, their voice back. I think, like you said, we go in these settings and if like Reighlah said, which is so, so true, you go in these rooms and the way that they’re sitting or they’re positioned themselves, even though we say on paper it’s a collaborative meeting, the IEP team, it’s supposed to come to a decision together. A lot of times in these meetings, it’s presented as if the decision is already made. It’s presented as if there’s no other options or opportunity to collaborate and talk things out to see if there’s other solutions.
So really giving the voice back to the parent and letting them know that their voice is just as important as anyone else. And really, although they may not be experts in the legal area, I mean they’re experts on their child and that is vital information that’s needed to make the best decision for their special education.
Reighlah Collins:
And if you want to pull out a fancy word in an IEP meeting to make them feel like you know what you’re talking about, it’s predetermination. That’s when it feels like the school’s already made a decision about services and that’s called predetermination and they’re not allowed to do it.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you. Lots of good information there. Before we close for the day, is there anything else that you’d like our listeners to know that we didn’t get a chance to cover so far?
Reighlah Collins:
I guess I’ll just say, just to break it down, we talked about a lot of stuff and I talked very fast. But a good time to call disability rights would be if your child is being excluded from school and you’re interested in learning more about informal and formal dispute resolution options that you might have to resolve those issues. But even if your child is facing a different special education issue, you can always call us for resources and referral. The training videos are about all types of special education issues, and we are happy to provide information about whatever issue you’ve got going on.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you so much. Anything else from you, Jolana?
Jolona Kinlaw:
No, I just would encourage the parent to always take time to do the research and know and reach out on where to find this material too. A lot of times, even as a parent myself, I should get in a better practice of just going back and meditating on my rights and where to go for this information and reviewing my child’s IEP regularly and engaging the teachers and having those conversations readily so that your presence is already there. And so you feel like you’re a collaborator on the team because you’re there and desire to make those relationships with the teacher so that when it’s time to collaborate, it doesn’t feel so foreign. It feels more of a relational like you are a team.
Jen Andrews:
What’s your personal experience with advocating?
Jolona Kinlaw:
Okay. So I can give a recent example and kind of even go through some steps of the things I had to do. So my son is 10 and he is going into a middle school setting. And there was some concerns with what the relationships is going to look like, what classroom setting he was going to be in. And Kayden has a diagnosis of autism, and so change is very difficult for him, and I know, proactively speaking, that being able to have services for him to be able to meet his teacher early on, get a feeling of how she is and what the classroom was going to look like and be set up was important for him to start on a fresh good slate in the beginning of the year.
So what I did was I took the steps to email his current teacher, the EC director and his new teacher. I expressed my concerns using Kayden’s IEP to explain what my concerns are and how, with his current goals, I proposed the question, “What would it look like with him going into a new setting? How are we going to make sure that he doesn’t regress?” That was my concern. And in that with the EC director, we had an IEP meeting and we kind of went back and forth on the importance of Kayden’s needs and we determined that we were actually able to do some extended school services in the summer where he was actually able to go and meet his teacher and actually get what he needed before school started.
So I just encourage parents, if you see a concern ahead of time that’s going to be maybe a red flag going into the new school year, or maybe there was a change that took place at home and you see that it’s going to affect your child’s behavior in a way where they may have more outbursts or they may have more meltdowns. I would proactively go ahead and send emails to communicate to the teacher, the principal may at this level that, “Hey, my child is experiencing X, Y, Z. It may look like this. It may look like that. Here’s how I need you all to support me.” Or, “How can we come together to make sure that Billy gets what he needs?”
Whether that be calling an IEP meeting and maybe readdressing that behavioral plan because you know that the child’s going to go into a season of having difficult moments. I want to encourage parents that it doesn’t have to necessarily be when the behavior starts. It doesn’t necessarily have to be when the child’s already been suspended and they’re on their fifth suspension. Sometimes as parents, as the experts, we can foresee things that are going to be red flags and we can go ahead and take the initiative to reach out to staff to be able to problem solve.
Jen Andrews:
Thank you. That was really great. I appreciate you sharing your personal experience with us. If any of our listeners have any more questions or want to check out our website, go to disabilityrightsnc.org. You can find legal help at 919-85-6-2195. Thank you so much for listening today. Thank you all for sharing your expertise. That was incredibly helpful.
Reighlah Collins:
Thanks for having us.
Jolona Kinlaw:
Thank you.
Jen Andrews:
I hope you all have enjoyed today’s episode of Legal Matters. I’m Jen Andrew reading for the North Carolina Reading Service. Today’s episode is underwritten by the Apex Lions Club, serving the community since 1937 by providing services and financial support for people who are blind, have low vision or print disabilities. To learn more about the services provided by the Apex Lions Club, go to apexlions.org. The content of this program is intended for people who are blind, have low vision or print disabilities. This broadcast is readily available as a podcast at our website, ncreadingservice.org. If you have any comments or questions, please call us at 919-832-5138. So long, until next time, and thank you so much for tuning in.