Jen Andrew:
Welcome to Amplify Together NC, a podcast by Disability Rights North Carolina. I'm your host, Jen Andrew, communications coordinator here at DRNC. Each episode will bring you conversations with disability advocates, experts, and everyday people making a difference. Together we'll dive deep into disability rights, current issues, and the power of community one conversation at a time. Let's get started.
In today's episode, I talked with Dr. Craig Waleed. Craig joined Disability Rights North Carolina in May of 2022, he serves as project manager for Unlock the Box campaign against solitary confinement. He's an educator, counselor, certified restorative practices group facilitator, author, and motivational speaker, dedicated to excellent in teaching, scholarship, and disrupting the community to prison pipeline. Craig's passion led him to work closely with students on several college campuses and participate in several community panels exploring carceral matters. He's devoted to educating and motivating others to challenge and overcome many of life's impediments in order to live a more rewarding experience. Craig completed his doctoral studies in executive leadership from St. John Fisher College in Rochester, New York, his autobiography, Prison to Promise, a Chronicle of Healing and Transformation, was published in August of 2020.
Hey, Craig, good afternoon, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule today to sit down with us. To get us started, do you think you could give our listeners a little bit of information about your background, what brought you to Disability Rights North Carolina, and your role here?

Dr. Craig Waleed:
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks Jen for inviting me to be a participant in this podcast. And so, my background, I'm from Rochester, New York, I lived in Rochester, New York the bulk of my life, I moved to North Carolina in 2020, but prior to moving here, in 1990, I found myself sentenced to a 12-year prison sentence, I served eight years in prison, and it was at that point that I started to really get an up close look at what it meant to have a psychological and emotional disability. Without yet having the language for that, I began to develop a sense of empathy for many of the people who were incarcerated with clear signs of psychological and emotional disabilities. I served eight years of that sentence in New York, I got out of prison in '97, completed four years of parole supervision, but also after I got out... I got off parole supervision in 2001, but before then, in 1999, I enrolled as a college student at one of the state universities in New York.
I completed a bachelor's degree in health science, it was a substance abuse concentration, in 2005, and I pursued that course of academic pursuit or studies because I wanted to better understand my own history of substance use and abuse, as well as to understand how substance abuse impacts people and causes them to go to prison. Because eventually I ended up doing lots of work, and really my life's work has been focused on recidivism, reduction, reentry, and helping people who are impacted by the criminal legal system turn over a new leaf. I went on to earn a master's degree in mental health counseling from the same university in Rochester, New York, or outside of Rochester, New York, the university is known as State University of New York at Brockport, and then in 2018, I earned a doctorate in education, but the focus of my doctorate looked at the impact of emotional intelligence on helping formerly incarcerated people avoid recidivism.
And might I say, all of my academic pursuits really circled or centered or kept in the center the experience of incarceration and how can people circumnavigate the negative impact of incarceration. And as I mentioned earlier, I moved to North Carolina in 2020 with my family, before I came to DRNC, I was still in higher ed here in North Carolina, where I worked at as a postdoc research assistant in the department of... I forget the name of the department, but I'll just say public health or health equity, something to that degree, with Dr. Lauren Brinkley-Rubinstein... She's the truth, so I'm going to always shout her out.
And we did research looking at the intersection of health and mass incarceration. And during that work there at UNC, with Dr. Brinkley-Rubinstein, we were interacting regularly with Disability Rights North Carolina, and looking at how, again, health impacts people, or how prison impacts the mental health, psychological, and overall health of people. And a position opened up at DRNC just as my postdoc was ending at UNC... I'm getting the NCs all mixed up in my head.

Jen Andrew:
No worries.

Dr. Craig Waleed:
Be patient with me a little bit. But yeah, so I applied and I've been with DRNC for I think about three years now.

Jen Andrew:
Thank you. Yeah, you have such an interesting background, it's such an impressive educational background, and I know I speak for our entire organization when I say we're so happy to have you here, doing your critical work. Speaking of, could you talk a little bit more about your work on the criminal legal team, and some of the campaigns you're working on?

Dr. Craig Waleed:
Yeah, so I work as the project manager on the criminal legal team over a program known as End Solitary NC is what we're known as, should I say, here in North Carolina, but we're part of a larger national movement known as Unlock the Box. And that movement's focus is to end solitary confinement in the nation. And so End Solitary NC's work is working on ending solitary confinement specifically here in North Carolina. And so, the bulk of the work that I have been doing really has been more public education, public awareness raising, and I've done that through a variety of ways, which have been public speaking by churches, universities, and in public spaces with different groups and organizations. Also have been collaborating with some local organizations as well as some outside of the Triangle, but still in North Carolina. And I think the critical piece of this work that I have been doing is that, as of lately, we've seen that some of our work has been getting some traction and there has been some success I think because of the influence of our work.
We're seeing some policy changes with North Carolina Department of Adult Corrections, such as the reduction of maximum duration of solitary confinement for nonviolent infractions inside the prisons, as well as banning the use of solitary confinement for juveniles and individuals with severe mental health issues. And so, I really think that these accomplishments of End Solitary NC, I think they go beyond just say preliminary or surface level progress, and they represent, I think, more tangible, maybe legislative victories, and I'm going to say a hoped for, and the hope is on the part of Department of Adult Corrections, so we hope for a greater commitment to implementing humane practices because of the influence that our work has had on the implementation or the adding of new policies and procedures around solitary confinement.

Jen Andrew:
Thank you. Yeah, that's incredible, it's such important work. When I was preparing for this conversation, I read that every day between two and 4,000 people live in solitary confinement in North Carolina prisons, and many of them have untreated mental health disabilities. It went on to say that a large body of research shows that solitary confinement has adverse psychological effects and increased serious harm to individuals who experience it. Also heard there is some research that shows a disproportionate number of folks living with disability end up in solitary confinement, can you speak a little more to that? It seems like that is not as often talked about, and it's vital to anybody who cares about folks with disabilities and the larger community.

Dr. Craig Waleed:
Yeah. Absolutely, thanks for asking that question, I think it's very important to look at that. And so, I think that the numbers of people inside North Carolina's solitary units have maybe decreased by a little, but I still think there's yeah, close to 2000 people a day there, where there used to be close to 3,500 to 4,000 a day before 2025, the end of 2024. What I understand from my research and my work around this is that, yeah, there's a disproportionate number of people who have psychological disorders already in prison, who are being targeted or victimized by the system and being placed inside solitary confinement units more than those folks who have not been diagnosed with psychological disorders. And moreover, or should I say also, we find that through research, again, and this is not my opinion, is that solitary confinement can either cause the onset of psychological disorders or problems, or it can exacerbate already pre-existing psychological challenges.
So, there's nothing good about solitary confinement, and another piece about that that most folks don't talk about is the impact that solitary confinement also has on the people that work in these units. They typically have very similar health outcomes as the people who they're keeping under lock and key in these situations. And so, it's not just psychological disorders, but also major organ disorders, such as heart, and liver, and gut and things of that nature. So, there's nothing good about it. But the other side of the argument is that solitary confinement is used to keep prisons safe. But again, looking at research and some of the most recent research, I can't cite it off the top who did it, but I know that the research points to the fact that facilities that have stringent solitary confinement practices typically are less safe than facilities that do not practice it as stringently.

Jen Andrew:
Thank you. Yeah, as you were speaking, that just really brings to mind that not only is the issue of solitary confinement, a systemic issue for criminal legal, but also within the individuals, as you're saying, it impacts different organ systems, psychological issues... Thank you. How can people stay informed with what you're doing?

Dr. Craig Waleed:
Yeah, so I think there's quite a few ways that people can stay informed, but I think the best way is to tune in to the Disability Rights North Carolina's website, and check out the work that the criminal legal team is doing. But I think also they can join the movement, what we're doing, we have an advisory panel, advisory committee, it's a loose committee of people from around the Triangle area, or around the state of North Carolina, should I say. Who show up when they can, and we meet every other month, online, and we talk about strategies on the best way to push for changes and implementation of new approaches to how solitary confinement is carried out. So, if they went on our website, DRNC's website, they could probably sign up for updates, DRNC, we have a social media campaign or page, so people can follow us on social media.
And then, our events are oftentimes broadcast on our DRNC social media, so they could attend events. And as a matter of fact, we have had some events in 2024, and we have some more coming up this year in 2025, one which is the screening of the film, the Strike, which is a documentary about incarcerated people in Pelican Bay's prison, in California, who went on strike about the conditions of solitary confinement. And they got some, the results were that they got some significant changes implemented in solitary confinement units there in Pelican Bay. But in addition, I think it's important, other ways that people can get involved is they can volunteer their time with us, or other advocacy groups, they can provide community outreach, they can give us some skills-based support on a variety of levels, as far as logistics, and financing, and volunteer... There's a whole bunch of stuff.
I'd love to talk to people more about this. Yeah, getting involved financially is definitely important, and helping us fundraise, donate monies, because we don't have a whole lot of money to go deal with. So, we're always looking for money. And the more money that we can get donated, and the more time, and more expertise that people can donate, I think the more impactful our work can be done. And then, I think what's really important is for folks to educate themselves, as well as other people. Educate themselves about what solitary confinement is, and then share that knowledge with their groups of people, whoever their groups are. And I say educate because I think that's very important, especially in this day and age, where we typically just go off of sound bites and bold print, and we read that and we take it as truth.
As a mass society, myself included sometimes, and I have to check myself. There's a whole hip-hop group called Das EFX, they said, "Check yourself before you wreck yourself." So, I have to often check myself because I don't want to be operating off of false or misleading information. And then, I think just the last couple other things I think, people can collaborate with other organizations, and I might've said that already, but also just stay informed, and I mentioned that too. So, visit the website, follow the local news, sometimes they tell the truth. I once heard a famous person say, "If you watch the news, you may be misinformed, but if you don't watch it, then you're uninformed." So, you might find out something about what's happening with our work if you watch the news. And then listen to podcasts, such as this podcast that we're recording now, as well as a shameless plug here, my podcast, Prison to Promise podcast, available on all platforms.

Jen Andrew:
Thank you. Yeah, and I will have all of this incredible information in our show notes to link to your podcast, link to our socials, and our website is disabilityrightsnc.org. We encourage folks to check out more information there. I'm wondering, what do you think that, in general, you were speaking to the importance of educating, what do you think people get wrong about solitary confinement?

Dr. Craig Waleed:
Yeah, that's a good question too. And I think some of the things that people get wrong is that the people who are in solitary confinement deserve it, I think people don't understand the long-term impact of solitary confinement, and one of the things that many people don't know is that the impact can be lifelong. Because research... Again, here we go with that research word, right? Research shows that solitary confinement causes atrophy of parts of the brain that will not regenerate. And so, I think that those are some things that people really need to understand, and that people get wrong. And another thing, people don't understand, people sometimes aren't in solitary confinement, not just for 30 days, but sometimes for 30 years, 10 years, 20 years... I think the person who served the longest time in solitary confinement in the United States was a gentleman named Alfred Woodcox, spent 44 years in solitary confinement before he was eventually released back into the community, then a few years later he died, but he died of free man.

Jen Andrew:
Wow. Yeah, the impact of that is huge, and it sounds like lifelong negative impact. I understand that you have taken a replica cell of a solitary confinement cell, can you describe for our listeners maybe briefly what that entails? Because I think people don't even understand the dimensions of where people are held and that kind of thing.

Dr. Craig Waleed:
Yeah. So, I'm pausing because just thinking about entering a solitary cell is just so impactful, and I was recently at a couple of prisons here in North Carolina, visiting the solitary units, and for a couple days afterwards, I was just in rough shape, I had to recover. And sometimes when I put up that replica cell, it impacts me very similarly, but not to the same depths. But the replica cell is just that, it's a replica display that externally, it's about 10 x 10, but the inside where people are held, the replica of the inside, is about the space of a parking lot maybe. And it's very tight, and to get a sense of that, I would encourage people to maybe go inside the smallest bathroom or toilet room in their house and imagine having to live in there for a week without quality human contact. But this replica cell, we have a replica bunk in there, a replica toilet in there, and we also have a actual soundscape from a solitary confinement unit that we play in there.
And that's one of the things people don't know either, is that these places can either be just so noisy and chaotic that it's hard to even hear oneself think, if that's possible, or to track one's thinking, or it can be so quiet in those places, again, that it can drive someone bananas, for lack of a better term. But this replica cell, we've set it up in various locations around the Triangle, we have a couple of places we'll be taking it soon. As a matter of fact, this Saturday, I'll be taking it out to Charlotte, North Carolina, doing a screening out there of The Strike, at the Urban League out there. But I remember having it set up one time, and a woman stood in front of this replica cell just in awe, or disgust, or fear... I'm not sure. But she asks me, "Do people actually live in a place similar to this?" And I told her, "Yeah, it's real, I've survived it twice for 30 days each time." This woman began to cry. She said, "I couldn't imagine someone living in such a place like that, it's so dehumanizing."

Jen Andrew:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I really appreciate you sharing that, I know it must be tough to talk about, and tough to do this work often. So, I'm wondering how do you keep going? How do you find hope and joy in these times, doing this really hard work that touches you so personally?

Dr. Craig Waleed:
So, how do I find hope, and how do I find joy, and how do I keep going? There's a couple layers to that, and one of the layers is just that understanding the history of my people in the United States of America. There's this old gospel song they used to sing when I was growing up in the Black church, and they say, "My soul looks back and wonder how I got over," And I think about all the people who came before me, and all the struggles they had to go through just because of the color of their skin, to make it in this country. So, I know that I stand on their shoulders, so that that information is the impetus that keeps me going, knowing that I'm fighting for generations that are coming behind me. So, knowing that I can be a beacon of hope for other people as well, that's what keeps me going.
Because I believe, or should I say, I know and understand that there is no separation between me and anyone else, any separation is just those myths that we tell ourselves. So, again, if I can be an example of success, or I can be an example of perseverance to someone else who has been going through the things that I've gone through, I keep going because I want to help make a better world. We all leave a footprint, right? We're all going to leave this earth at some point. So, I've done some bad things in my life, but I don't want the bad things to be the only footprints that are left, I want some good footprints, and I want to be able to show progression, I want that to be seen throughout my life, that this person evolved. So, I'm also working on that, again, so that I could be an example to other people no matter what walk of life they've been in, or what experience that they've had, be it carceral or not, just knowing that if you're down, you can come back up.
But then, what also helps me to keep going is I got a wonderful family, man. Or should I say woman, or Jen? Man is just general and I think people know that. But I have a wonderful family, I come from a very supportive extended family, that was very instrumental in helping me to keep it together while I was incarcerated, as well as once I got out, to get to the point where people can now call me Dr. Waleed, and not just Craig, if I so elect to. But also my family that I live with, my immediate family. I have a wonderful wife, Saarah Waleed, I have two wonderful boys, who are 13 and 18, Ismail and Isa Waleed, wonderful sons. And then we have a wonderful dog named Lucky. Lucky's part of the family, he's a white Dogo Argentino.

Jen Andrew:
Absolutely.

Dr. Craig Waleed:
And then, finally, I'll tell you, I'm an avid cyclist, I'm not a professional cyclist, but I'm one of those guys you'll see on the side of the road with the tights on, and the helmet, hunched over, waiting for the light to change... And I'm getting it. Where or I'll get out on the greenways and go, but I try to ride long and intense, and those things help me to maintain a sense of balance.

Jen Andrew:
That's great. Yeah, thank you. Wow, I'm so appreciative of you and this powerful conversation you had with me today, and just as a reminder, we'll have all of the notes from this episode for folks where they find this recording, and please visit our website for any more information at disabilityrightsnc.org. Thank you so much.

Dr. Craig Waleed:
Right on, thank you for this time, and thank you to all the listeners. Peace.

Jen Andrew:
That's it for today's episode of Amplify Together NC. Thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Bluesky, LinkedIn, and YouTube. Let's keep the discussion going. Until next time, stay strong, stay connected, and keep advocating.